Saturday, July 21, 2012

The Dark Knight Rises: Plot Holes, Inconsistencies and Theories


The Dark Knight Rises was a hell of an entertaining movie, and Nolan did deliver on the massive expectations. Of course all mammoth movies inevitably come with a few inconsistencies and Nolan’s especially are packed with double enterdres. What follows are spoilers, and those who haven’t seen the film yet are advised to close this tab right now. 

The big finale, though epic in scale was straight out of Iron Giant (and it was much more heartbreaking in that movie). Even last year’s Captain America had a similar climax where the hero flies a bomb away to save lives and sacrifice himself. But there is another aspect of the ending that interests me more:

1) Was the scene at the restaurant a dream or reality? 

All his life, Alfred has wished to see Bruce Wayne chilling out at the restaurant with a wife and family, and suddenly his wish seems to have been fulfilled. Bruce is seen having drinks with Selina, and has survived the nuclear  blast after all. 

It makes more sense that Alfred imagined this scene, because he never gave Bruce the name or the address of the restaurant, yet he appears in the exact same seat at the exact same time that Alfred expects him to be in. 

If it wasn’t a dream, and Alfred actually went to meet Bruce, it brings me to the next question:

2) How did Batman survive the Nuclear Blast?

We’re shown that Bruce had fixed the autopilot on The Bat. Note that when Batman hooks up the bomb to the vehicle, he flies really low. Why? Presumably to engage autopilot and get off the vehicle and onto a building terrace. We never see the cockpit when The Bat goes out into the sea, right before the blast all we're shown is a closeup of Batman's face. And if that was indeed a shot of the cockpit, there was no chance that Bruce would've survived the blast, since he was right above the bomb.

In any case, disbelief has to be suspended here, because the nuclear bomb 6 miles away should’ve incinerated everyone on the coast of Gotham, and resulted in devastating nuclear radiations in the months to come. Yet no one is injured and Gotham is safe. Batman is alive and Robin becomes the new.. err.. Batman.

Which brings me to the most difficult query of them all:

3) Why does the Batman need to stage his own death??

Batman has just saved Gotham, now everyone in Gotham knows that Batman is the hero, and criminals would now be forever afraid to him. So why does he need to destroy himself?

And why does Bruce Wayne need to stage his own death? To escape corporate life and lawsuits involving fraudulent shares and unending court cases over reclamation of his own enterprise? It just doesn’t gel, because both Bruce and the Batman are heroes, and it only solidifies the theory of Alfred imagining Bruce alive.  

4) How the fuck does Batman travel from Jodhpur to Gotham?

After breaking Batman’s back, Bane takes a trip from Gotham to an unknown medieval location and dumps Bruce Wayne in the Lazarus Pit. A chiropractor snaps his spinal cord back in place, and Bruce exercises like Hrithik Roshan in Mission Kashmir, and heroically Rises out of the pit. We then see Bruce miraculously appearing in Gotham and hitting on Catwoman. 

How the heck did he travel from the 'Jodhpur-location' desert to a snowy Gotham? A desert and a snowy region are never walkable distance from each other so it is unlikely that Bruce just walked back to Gotham. Even if both regions exist next to each other in a comic book universe where anything goes, Gotham was under freaking siege, and was completely cut off from the outside world. All the bridges except one heavily guarded one were destroyed. Even the army couldn’t get in Gotham, but Bruce just waltzes in, goes home, shaves, wears a new suit and meets Selina.

You may argue that this is a movie, a comic book movie at that, but this is a major plot hole considering Nolan’s persistence on grounding the Batman films to the real world. I should also mention that Bruce, when he returns to Gotham, also somehow finds time to gather equipment and explosions and climb the top of a bridge to make the awesome Bat logo. He also has not yet met anyone, but seems to telepathically know the amount of time left for the bomb to explode.

The best answer, of course, is HE IS MOTHERFUCKING BATMAN. That’s how he reached Gotham, okay? Moving on..

5) Is The Dark Knight Rises a worthy ending to the trilogy?

While still an incredible movie and thoroughly satisfying, The Dark Knight Rises would’ve been an utter classic had Nolan not shown Bruce Wayne alive, and had just cut to black (or to Robin in the Batcave) after Alfred breaks the fourth wall with a startled look on his face. Like the tiny wobble of the spinning top in Inception.

Speaking of which, the entire trilogy could well have been a part of the Inception universe. Bruce Wayne, the owner of a big corporation might have been incepted at the behest of Saito. In the first level he is given an idea to become more than a man, in the second level he is strategically fed guilt, in the third he is successfully convinced to make a silly decision and give up his corporation. Arthur the point man, Eames the forger, Saito the employer are all present, so is Mal. 

Are the above really plot holes? Or are they easily explained? You now have my permission to send in your theories/arguments in the comments below.


237 comments:

  1. I dont undesand how they find out about the autopilet later, shouldnt the bat plane/hovercraft have been destroyed, or did i miss something?

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  2. Batman/Bruce Wayne might have fake died to start over with a clean slate with Catwoman/selina Kyle after she used that device.

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  3. my biggest beef was how he got back to gotham, not so much the distance but managing to get on the island because the amount of time changed alot. I am wondering if there will be director commentary and/or directors cut that shows him getting back.

    in terms of faking his own death, it fulfills the destiny alfred wanted for him if you recall there conversation when he explained his trips to europe.

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  4. He's obviously alive. The 3 people that attended Bruce Wayne's funeral were Luscious, Gordon, and Alfred; and each of them got their own confirmation of him not being dead (Luscious with the Auto-pilot, Alfred at the restaurant, and Gordon with the gift of the fixed bat signal that he pets nostalgically). It wasn't a daydream Alfred was having...Bruce was there. He needed a clean slate as much as Selina did.

    I am absolutely peeved at how Bruce got from BFE to Gotham...especially now that he was broke.

    I'm pretty sure the final sequence of him flying the bomb was cut to make it seem like he was still in The Bat, even though he had probably jumped out much sooner when the Bat was low over the streets and the bomb was scraping the road. As for the tech guys telling Luscious that the auto pilot was fixed, I'm pretty sure they were looking at the "black box" log of the Bat.

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  5. I got it. As far as bomb goes.. 1. He got the auto pilot working and got out of dodge. 2. Superman saves his punk ass at the last minute. And that starts the new Superman movies. All three movies are about him trying fix gotham and move on with his life. There was like 30 minutes of dialouge about it with alfred. So now that city is saved, batman is no longer needed.

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  6. Personally, I thought that Bruce was still alive. I mean, with his and Selena's tracking skills, it wouldn't be too crazy to think that he had followed Alfred to Italy and learned his daily habits thereby positioning himself in a place where Alfred could have seen him once he started drinking his coffee. Plus, why would Alfred envision Selena Kyle with Bruce? I would think that since Alfred didn't really have a relationship or a chance to get to know Selena in the same way that Lucius Fox did, that it would be pretty bizarre for Selena to be the one in Alfred's dream. Overall, I rather see "The Batman" finally get the happy ending that he truly deserves.

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  7. Alfred did tell Bruce the name of the restaurant...

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  8. I have a question: Assuming Bruce Wayne is still alive in the end, then exactly whose funeral was conducted? Sure, they must've assumed that he had died, but didn't anyone take a proper look at his body before the funeral? Or did Bruce just escape from his coffin sometime after his funeral? And if his body hadn't been found, how could they assume that they he had died? Alfred had declared him dead in 'Batman Begins' as he had been missing for seven years (without a trace). Surely, the same mistake wouldn't be made, right? Or am I missing something here?

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  9. Where us Ra's Al ghul? Is he dead? Is his meeting with Bruce a dream?

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  10. I dont think there would be a body left assuming he died in the middle of a nuclear explosion

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  11. Did the Real Mihir post this or a lobotomized patient of Dr. Crane?

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  12. Not really a plot hole. When people get lost at sea, for instance, there's usually no chance of finding the remains, but they still hold funerals and erect tombstones for them. There's always a *slim* chance that the person may have made it since there's no physical proof of death (e.g. see Cast Away), but I think it was reasonable to assume that batman had died.

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  13. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1345836/faq#.2.1.64

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  14. When Blake meets Luscious Fox at the Wayne Manor, he speaks about the Decaying atomic reactor and tells him that the bomb is gonna explode in 23 days. Then there is random firing and Blake says some sold them out (Which was of course Miranda/Talia). Meanwhile in another scene Bruce Wayne manages that jump and escapes. So that gives him 23 days. When he meets Selina he says the Bomb is going out tomorrow. That means he reached Gotham on the 22nd day from the escape(Although he might have been to Gotham a couple days earlier, give or take). So that gives Bruce ample amount of time to Travel, Shave, Create a Bat logo on the building and all other chores.. Well this is my theory. I might be wrong.

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  15. They believed he was in the middle of a blast from a nuclear bomb. His body would have been completely disintegrated almost instantly. They also believed that he was in the Bat Wing as it was repeatedly stated that the auto-pilot function did not work, so Batman had to fly it away from the city.

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  16. Good post mihir.

    It was not a imagination but a reality to keep the batman fans happy.Imagine batman dying in the end.Of course that would have been a fantastic and far moving end but also would be a fact too harsh for fans to digest.Nolan knew it and hence the compromise for the box office.

    The other plotholes you have mentioned are also pretty much valid.

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  17. yeah it was destroyed..but the skeleton of the bat reached the shore and in the end, we see morgan freeman talking to some investigators realizing that the autopilot was fixed.

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  18. I think since the scene where Fox finds out about the autopilot patch is among the others where Bruce is leaving clues to those close to him that he is still alive, means that Bruce must have gained access to a similar prototype (I believe it appeared to be silver, and not the black Batman version) and installed the software patch in order to inform Fox that he's alive.

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  19. I too believe that bruce is alive..also just to add to your comment,Alfred had said that he always imagined bruce in the restautent with a parter and children..but we don't see any children in the end..so if it was his imagination,there would be bruce's children in the scene

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  20. There might have been an assembly of batplanes...like how they have an assembly of batmobiles in the movie...and like a software bug you fix the bug, its applied everywhere. Or maybe lucius might have taken the blueprint and made one more...i dont know how likely that is...Still just a theory.

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  21. Man at first place GOTHAM itself is a fictional city .,and to write down this 'goof ups' this is not even a BIOPIC or historical motion project .,don't u read at the beginning of such movie,''All characters and incidences.........

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  22. Except the last escape, Nolan must have explanation for everything other.... He just not have enough time to describe those, because he has added many sub plots in the story already stretching the time to 2 and 45 minutes...

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  23. Mihir, you and I know that the prison was in Jodhpur. but in the movie they never explicitly state where the prison is. For all we know it could be in a Texas desert :P

    and another major plot hole was when bane et al attacked the stock exchange and downed all of Bruce's money with his fingerprints, wont all transactions be deemed as null for that day. and plus there were so many witnesses. Waynr corporation could have easily proved that it was a fraud and got back Bruce all his money.

    And Bruce wayne staged his own death. not batman. Bruce probably wanted to escape and start a life afresh . this is hinted a lot i.e. starting afresh when bruce and selina are talking. maybe both of them wanted to start a life afresh. and batman is not dead. they just erected his statue. also, the bat signal is repaired indicating that batman is no way dead.

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  24. Small issue of Bane transporting Batman to Mexico (not Jodhpur btw, although the shot was of Jodhpur). There obviously was a way in/out of Gotham. You need to assume both bane and Batman knew this.
    Bruce Wayne took Alfred's advice and left Batman behind. He left everything. Think he could have ejected WITH the cockpit?

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  25. I believe Batman lived in the end...It was no dream....Since he was fucking tired of saving Gotham 3 times, he let Mr. Blake to continue his work...

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  26. 1) Sadly it is reality. So I believe. I think they should have left it with Alfred's expression too. The minority report-esque(your previous post) dream alternative doesn't make much sense with the other parts of the ending.

    2) The Nuclear blast was a bummer, I agree. How far could he even get with the bomb and less than 5 minutes. Facepalm.

    3)"You either die a hero or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain." sums is up probably. Showing the batman isn't a person, but an idea. The people of gotham will all have a piece of batman in them as hope. Sounds cheesy, but it works...and paves way for...emm...robin.

    4) That bugged me a bit during the movie. But he is still bruce wayne, though bankrupt maybe he has an old rich ally in jodhpur who has the capacity to air drop him discreetly to gotham. He did have time...don't go by the movie editing time. Its still a loose end, but pardonable.

    5) Inception-izing is kinda far out, yet bleddy interesting.

    I love how the gif image concludes the movie so concisely. :)

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  27. What is the difference between the two?

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  28. 1. It seemed real enough. I remember Alfred telling Bruce the name of the restaurant in their earlier conversations. Also, from the look at Alfred's face in the end, he does not seem at all surprised to see Bruce there. Rather, he just looks happy, which means he was expecting to see him there. The two, however, seemed to share a secret nod, as if to not let anyone know they know each other, for some reason.

    2. He could have ejected himself out of The Bat well in advance to put enough distance between it and himself to survive the blast. Then it was just a matter of staying hidden for a while from everyone, including Alfred, as can be seen by what he says at the cemetery to Bruce's father. Then he somehow quietly escapes to France and calls Alfred there.

    3. To get away from it all, as Alfred wanted him to. Gotham did not need Batman anymore and Bruce did not need Gotham.

    4. Excellent question. I guess he could have hitched a ride till Gotham but how he managed to get in is anyone's guess.

    5. Yes.

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  29. RAG disappearing in thin air should answer your question.

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  30. Just saw the movie for the second time, he doesn't tell him the name. (Unless I missed it twice in a row)

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  31. Good points, Pratyush and Louis. Whether it was a dream or reality, there seem to be holes in both theories.

    Either this is clumsy storytelling, or genius double open ended entendres. We'll never know.

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  32. I still don't get the bat voice though. He uses it in front of Selina Kyle even when she knows he is Bruce Wayne. I think the costume might be so tight that it kinda chokes that voice out of him.

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  33. I'm sure he did, and I wish he'd put them in. It'd have cost the studio only 30 seconds to a minute more. Though that would still translate to a million dollars or so.

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  34. Yes, yes, which is why I mentioned 'Jodhpur location'. Good call on the stock exchange contrivance.

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  35. Bruce is shown with the pearl necklace I'm the well prison. Wud not have bane taken it, or Bruce could have been tracked by alfred/fox/catwoman?

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  36. They do mention that the firm will take a hit in the short term and that they would prove fraud in the long run...but a loose end it is.. the end is a bit absurd.. i cant imagine gotham or the batman surviving a nuclear blast at such close quaters..and isnt a fission reactor bereft of radiation but motre powerful and virtually unstoppable...

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  37. He does not..mentions just a cafe in florence..as much as i loved the movie...the end was a little too far fetched....

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  38. Very 'He was fucking tired of saving Gotham 3 times' - succinctly put. You may be right.

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  39. Alfred and bruce are such thick friends. maybe bruce knows what alfred's favourite cafe is. :P or bruce just peeked into alfred's credit card details and found the name of the cafe he used to frequent.

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  40. lol nice. you never know we might see Superman save batman during Man of Steel. like after credits or something , for all you know

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  41. 6) How did Batman get The Bat in that narrow lane without a whole street noticing? (After the chase when the Bat debuts) Even if that thing could transform into a car to help him park in the alley, somebody would've been there to notice the Dark Knight's premature rise. Err.

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  42. You sir are an idiot who keeps plugging his blog on reddit
    Go see the movie again till the time your questions are answered.
    Sorry man you are a karma whore and a bad blogger

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  43. I agree. Who knows, perhaps the studios wanted a Yash Raj happy ending.

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  44. Sorry for the photo. I thought the (+image) was for the dp for the comment.

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  45. Mihir, for question 4 some CIA honchos were finding their way inside the city, If you remember the 3 guys meeting Gordon and the attempt to break the city from within.

    For a single guy to infiltrate into Gotham can be possible, For all we know Bruce could have paraglided into some suburban region close to Gotham.

    The destroying of bridge only prevented armies or any attempts for Michael Bay style rescue operation.

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  46. I guess no one paid attention due to the situation in the stock market on the other side of the town.

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  47. Maybe the happy ending was to made to please the indian viewers. i think the US version might have a different ending. this was the worst part of the trilogy, did not meet the expectation. even Bane is weaker than the joker.

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  48. Mihir, I can't see any reason why would you have to do blogposts which don't say anything new that's not there on web.( Re : Minority Report)

    Anyway, since someone has already posted IMDB FAQ link here, I will post the Reddit discussion thread. http://www.reddit.com/r/movies/comments/wuzvk/the_dark_knight_rises_discussion_thread/

    After cursory glance through the comments below, the only thing people seem to miss is 'resulted in devastating nuclear radiations' part. That's because it was a fusion bomb unlike the fission bomb which makes the area inhabitable for years to come.

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  49. I strongly feel that the final scene is just a fragment of Alfred's imagination. In an earlier scene, Alfred clearly states that watching Bruce sitting at a table with his wife was his 'fantasy'. There is no way that the scene signifies Batman coming back from the dead.

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  50. Nice questions and we had the same doubts after seeing the film. Nice to see so many comments here with various reasonings. Thanks for putting up the forum Mihir.

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  51. LOL. Stupid. Someone on the internet is not allowed to post queries because of Reddit? Why r u reading this guys blog then?

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  52. selina kyle doesn't know Bruce Wayne is batman you doofus.

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  53. you watch way too much porn nigga. It's not luscious ffs. It's lucius.
    :-|

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  54. pixie, my child. Please watch the movie and then comment on the reviews.

    Sincerely.

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  55. 1. scene was a reality. Alfreds dream was fullfilled by Bruce.
    2. He must have jumped off the flyer far away from everyones notice.
    3. Staging his own death to live a normal life without threat to him loved ones cause still people might know that he bruce was batman.
    4. Must have asked for lift in a plane(who cares?)
    5. It was a worthy end

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  56. There were more models of the hovercraft. Lucius Fox shows a military brown one to Wayne at the start and then says, "And yes, it does come in black." Bruce Wayne managed to fix the autopilot technology itself, as opposed to fixing it on just one model of the hovercraft.

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  57. I think mihir charges saswat monthly fees to read his blog thats why he is upset

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  58. 1) Alfred just mentions that there is a cafe in florence that i go to...he is his butler from when he wa a child!! come on he has to know alfreds taste and read his mind!! it indeed was reality and like prathyush said there were no kids!! brilliant point to support it!! we all want it to be reality dont we??!!

    2) He coulda autopiloted it to make it go deep into the sea bfore the blast!! its THE BAT after all or the close up of batmans face was not inside a cockpit but rather of another smaller vehicle which he ejected out of the bat !!!

    3)batman is sacrificing himself for gotham, like his father did which is what he always wanted..so that the people wont let his death go in vain!! the same harvey dent was potrayed to have done!! batman became a white knight from a dark knight..stays a knight still

    As for bruce i guess he wanted a fresh start, so did selina

    4)When batman could do a similiar travel in batman begins from the mountain top to the chartered flight that alfred brings him i guess he can do the same here. It was anyway not mentioned that that was jodhpur... plus liek someone mentioned it dint take quick time..another good point!!

    5)Knowing how nolan always loves to create an impact i thought he will kill of bruce/batman for sure... maybe he wanted an happy ending for bruce...and mayyybe feared fan backlash :-P!! I liked the fact that the climax was alfreds wish because that scene where bruce asks alfred to leave was really powerfully emotional...

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  59. Sorry to say but I think this is stupid except the fifth point which is thrilling to visualize.

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  60. I came to this blog to see if he has given any new insight. I never said he shouldn't do it. I said 'I don't see any reason' because when someone has already said it why pass it as your own idea. Knowing Mihir I am sure he would have already read that reddit post I linked

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  61. Mr Sashwat, thank you for your valuable input.

    This post is neither a review, nor a revelatory Pulitzer worthy sansani khez. This is a post meant to invite discussion from readers, to chew over various theories. If you don't like it, you have an option to not read or participate in the discussion. I've never begged you to read my blog. Cheers.

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  62. " Bane dumps Bruce Wayne in the Lazarus Pit" who said that was the Lazarus pit. Only Ra's al gul knows it's location.

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  63. "Gotham was under freaking siege" when Bruce wayne offers Cat Woman the slate program he says he knows a way out of Gotham.

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  64. Dude you got way too much time !!! Enjoy the movie and stop being a "Critic" all the time. Chill maar :)

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  65. Hey hey be kind, will ya?

    Anyways, Selina does know that Bruce is the Batman.

    @Ajay I saw a Christian Bale junket interview yesterday and even there he seemed to have a Batman voice hangover. I guess he has well and truly absorbed into the character.

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  66. I do have a lot of time on my hands, but I'm not criticizing the film (have you read my review?). It's a discussion forum.

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  67. 1. Please stop countering feedback as " I've never begged you to read my blog." That's like saying "If critics don't like my movie I never asked them to watch it." And you know that's a bullshit argument.

    2. I never came here to troll. I often read your blog and was disappointed to not read any new insight, so first thought that popped to my mind was you are doing it for hits(2nd case after MR post). As you are clarifying that's not the case, I'll take your word for this time.

    AND PLEASE STOP CLASSIFYING EVERY NEGATIVE COMMENT AS TROLL. It's frustrating. Cheers!

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  68. I'm not outraging over negative comments. It's just in my rulebook that condescension will be met with condescension. Cheers.

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  69. Wayne corporation has board members like Mr. Daggatte who hates Bruce Wayne and wants to acquire everything of Wayne corporation. They would have never backed up Bruce. They wanted to kick him out of the corporation and they succeed.

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  70. Here's one: how did the Gotham police force manage to stay alive underground for, what, five months? They all come out cleanly shaven, fresh-looking, and ready to fight. And charging mercenaries with automatic weapons in the confines of a city street is generally a bad idea.

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  71. Here's what I think:
    1) The scene at the restaurant can be interpreted as either dream or reality. If it is reality, it is still possible that they tracked Alfred in the restaurant given the combined intelligence of Bruce and Selina.
    2) Frankly I don't think this second question begs for an answer. The bat was on auto-pilot. How he survived is left to the viewer's imagination. It didn't bother me at all.
    3) He staged his own death because he didn't want to be a superhero anymore. Remember Rachel's words: "I wish a day comes when Gotham no longer needs a superhero". Though Bruce continued being a vigilante superhero, he did indeed share Rachel's wish. So, he didn't exactly enjoy being a superhero. With Rachel's death, that wish only grew stronger. Even Alfred wished for that. Now that he had averted a major catastrophe befalling Gotham, that day seemed only nearer. But for him to stop being a superhero, he would need to get away from Gotham. If he stayed back, he would be forced to continue being one. Everyone would depend on him. Remember that at the end of TDK, he took the fall for Harvey Dent's crime because he wanted people to trust a legal system, not a vigilante. He would never want people to depend on a vigilante superhero instead of depending on a legal system. Co-existence of a legal system with a vigilante system is never an option in an ideal society. For how long should he continue being a superhero? Besides, personal accolades were never his motivations. So, in a way, it was his retire, albeit one that needed him to stay away from Gotham for which he needed to stage his death. But he wasn't exactly cutting off his ties with Gotham either. Wayne foundation under Alfred and Fox would still continue support to Gotham.
    4) You have answered the fourth question. He is Batman, a smart superhero. Not a question that really needs an answer.
    5) The answer to the fifth question is 'yes'.

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  72. Maybe it had stealth mode like the batmobile has...something like the lights all turn off on it and make it difficult to spot!?

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  73. They were given food supplies, but yeah they look way too spruced up when they emerge.

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  74. why would you compare bane with joker..they are both different with different motives!

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  75. it's retarded to think that the US version would have a different ending...

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  76. they all had swiss army knives with them :-P!!

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  77. I have a totally different question here and please don't mind my ignorance on this, I've been out of touch. Before TDKR, did Gordon know Batman's real identity? In the hospital, he tells the masked Wayne that Batman will have to come back. Right? Now, how the fuck does Blake know who Batman is? Unless Gordon told him about it. To contradict this, towards the end, Batman reveals his true identity to Gordon and Gordon, surprised, says, "Bruce Wayne?". The film was with subtitles and the 'question mark' was there.

    I don't exactly remember, but according to Dwebb3688, if it really took him 20 days, then he could have been anywhere on the planet. And this is Bruce Wayne we are talking about, a billionaire, who has traveled a lot, who also is the Batman!
    And NOM, but a desert and a snowy place are walkable distance in Ladakh! :-)

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  78. I expect shouting matches over this for the next few weeks.

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  79. Regarding Bruce getting back to Gotham so easily, if the Special forces can come in , why cant the Batman ?

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  80. And also he didn't get laid even once in the first two movies...that's why c he ended up sleeping with the enemy...Who does that to a Superhero?

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  81. The only question I have is - Where the Fuck did Bane get three Mountain Bikes inside the Stock Market?

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  82. Blake tells bruce that he knew it was the him the moment he saw because he had met him before at that orphanage... both had similiar pasts...parents dead, left to discover life on their own.. and then he tells him about how he learnt to control his anger and all that...another brilliant scene...so maybe because he could understand waynes emotions and thoughts better than any other person he could guess it was him... if u can see that scene again again you ll get to know!!

    Gordon dint know until the end that bruce was batman....

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  83. And via Sashwat http://www.reddit.com/r/movies/comments/wuzvk/the_dark_knight_rises_discussion_thread/

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  84. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kqF8lcKTLw0

    This teaser here shows Gordon talking to Wayne about being "in this together". Also, Wayne is not talking in Batman's voice. For all I remember, he was just wearing a mask.

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  85. "who said that was the Lazarus pit. Only Ra's al gul knows it's location"

    Did you watch the movie? Bane and Talia have both spent years of their lives in the Lazarus Pit.

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  86. You guys are all missing the most important plot hole. Lucius is seen working on the Bat with a couple of people after the nuclear explosion. Regardless of whether it was on autopilot or not, how exactly is the Bat there? It was at the epicenter of a nuclear detonation. There would literally not be a single shred of it left for Fox to analyze.

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    1. Have you watched the movie? If you had, you would know the answer. GO watch the movie again you idiot.

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  87. I think Alfred seeing Bruce in Florence isn't a dream. Bruce is brilliant at tracking and finding people. If you remember The Dark Knight, Batman goes to Hong Kong and captures a hidden Tau. I think he is capable enough of finding Alfred himself. Moreover, before leaving Gotham, The Bat blasts through a building, probably a distraction before Batman escapes the plane.

    I agree with most other points suggested in the post. They do sound like some massive plot-holes. Maybe the answers given by many folks on the comment thread also stand true.

    But for me, the major plot-holes which have been bugging me ever since I saw the film are as follows:

    1) Bane's motives are very unclear. Why would anyone as brilliant and maniacal as Bane, do all of this for a girl he met in a prison?

    2) The film doesn't explain the purpose of Bane's mask. The chiropractor in the prison tells Bruce that the mask helps contain the pain, but then how does it work? What kind of pain does it reduce? Why would a guy beaten up by a mob of the world's worst criminals need a mask? No explanation at all.

    3) If it was that easy to kill Bane at the end, why did no one else, ever use a damn gun? (Or maybe Bane isn't dead and like Batman he escaped death. No one knows)

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  88. 1. Alfred said he always visits a cafe(he mentioned the name) in Florence and imagines Bruce with a family. However, only one of his memories are shown. So the question of sitting at the same table is out of question.
    2.Your explanation is what I deduced and agree.
    3.When Batman was absent, people stopped fighting for themselves. In the climax when he arrives, people get hope. Had he remained on fighting, he would have to continue fighting for the people. His death ensured that the metaphorical fire kept burning in the citizens.
    4. That very well might have been Mexico. And he has friends I believe in high places.
    5. Is debatable. I have hardly had so much fun at the movies in a long time.

    I have a doubt though. What did they say happen to Bruce Wayne?

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  89. I thought Fox found the autopilot activated in the first prototype of The Bat (the one which he shows off to Bruce earlier). I may be wrong.

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  90. dude have you read the comics? Lazarus pit is a chemical pool which Ra's al ghul uses to heal himself...what you saw in the movie is not a pit but something else.

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  91. Hey douchebag. Go watch the movie with ur mother again. maybe she'll explain it you. Selina does know that Bruce is Batman during Batman-Bane fight in the tunnel. *Ghochu sala* Aak Thoo.

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  92. Lucius was seen taking something out of the batwing just before taking off while he was talking to batman, it looked like a box with four cylinders, not sure what it was but he may have found the time to fix the autopilot now that Wayne industries was no more, and replaced it with the corrected software

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  93. He died in the riots that ensued from the explosion and commotion....

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  94. Bruce Wayne is alive. Alfred saw Selina only once early in Waye Manor as a maid. Why would he imagine Bruce along with Selina then in the last scene? Also Bruce gesturing towards Alfred shows that it's real. Gotham needed a symbol,a hero.Bruce Wayne needed a fresh life.Both happened.

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  95. lazarus pit is d chemical Ra's al gul using for healing and resurrection ...the prison is Pera duro...

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  96. Now,If Bruce Wayne is a billionaire,atleast someone in the crowded restaurant in Florence would recognise him if he didn't wear any disguise!

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  97. when the batman existed they were in it together as in fight together maybe....

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  98. Things bothering me about the movie, in addition to what people have already brought up.

    1. The plot to destroy Gotham was so inefficient and unnecessarily complex. Talia and Bane's main purpose all along was to destroy Gotham. That was their ultimate goal. So why use a time bomb that takes months to detonate? Didn't someone speak up at one of their planning meetings and say "We have to keep the city under hostage for six months? Can't we think of something better, quicker and so much less impractical?" Even if they wanted to prove some political/social point before detonation by driving the city into a war between haves and have nots, couldn't they have proven that point in a lot less time? And unless I missed something (and I may have because the sound in my theater sucked, causing me to miss a few lines of dialogue), didn't their army start invading Gotham before Talia even knew where the bomb was?

    2. Ok, the prison. This was an actual prison, right? If it was, where were the security guards? After getting out of the hole (why wasn't the hole closed up in the first place if it was proven that someone could escape through it?), Bruce Wayne apparently just walked away. Was there no security anywhere that would have seen him?

    There's lots of other things bothering me (like Batman apparently thinking it's important enough to take time to create a giant flaming bat symbol even though there's just hours left to save Gotham) but they are mostly little things that I will dismiss as the typical stuff that you have to suspend disbelief for while watching movies like this.

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  99. Dude you are just plain stupid..! We believe in the concept of a masked man taking down 40 people at a time and saving the city..(and people still do not know who he is)...Dark knight rises is a concept...not an application..get your act straight before you watch a classic..! The question should be, 'are you worthy of watching and enjoying the classic batman ending?'

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  100. Frankly, I think it's irrelevant whether Alfred sees Bruce in the Florence restaurant or not. Either he's imagining it or he sees him. Either way, Bruce Wayne as Batman is finished. You can make arguments for "retired" or "dead", but in the film's context, both mean the same. Nolan's just fucking with us with his characteristic little tease.

    Also, one major fact which made me appreciate this film is the fact that in the previous movies, Batman *chooses* to be the fall guy in most scenarios. I mean he's sort of thinking all the time and sometimes takes the back stance because *he* chooses to do so. Not in this film. Bane fucks him up completely. Fuck. Batman is totally helpless. No plan. No mindgames. So I think the film lives up to its name when Bruce has no other option but to overcome his previously untested skills. I mean, the Joker tested him mentally and made him think why he was a hero in the first place. But here, it's more like "You call yourself a hero? Now act like one". With the Joker, it was "Dude, seriously, the shit you do, it's fucking pointless. Think about it."

    Plus, I think Marion Cotillard was a little bland when she turned all evil. But it's Marion Cotillard on IMAX display, so why am I complaining?

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  101. I think Batman had to stage his death in order to fulfill Alfred's wishes; of seeing him lead a peaceful life. But he also needed to give hope to his close ones in Gotham. Hence Robin.

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  102. I enjoyed it. Didn't really think too much about possible plot holes. But points # 2,3,4, along with the Joker's plan on getting himself caught etc are the reason I'd love to watch a brainstorming session between Nolan and Kanti Shah ;)

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  103. 3) Why does the Batman need to stage his own death??

    I read the most beautiful theory about this on IMDB. In the TDK climax, he becomes that bad guy so that people have a hero (Dent) they can look up to and yada yada.
    In TDKR, the most crucial scene is the one where the scared group of police officers charge forward selflessly, inspired by the Batman. The selfless death of Batman for Gotham is enough to inspire every officer to do what they were really supposed to do, thereby ending the need for a supehero.

    Also, Catwoman is hot. So he needed to marry her and see the world and shit.

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  104. I just have a couple of problems with the movie (fantastic movie, btw. No questions.)

    1. Bane definitely deserved a better ending than to be just blown aside like a common crook, followed by a one liner. Come on. He broke the fucking bat, yo. Show him some respect.

    2. Having said that, let's rewind. So Bane breaks Bruce completely and takes him back to the one place on Earth where Bruce can learn secrets about Bane's history, his strengths and his weaknesses? Sounds like a dick move, if you ask me.

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  105. //ouble open ended entendres//
    Its nothing new of Nolan's movie

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  106. I have a question for you regarding #4. Is it mentioned anywhere in the movie that the pit is supposed to be in India? I know that the Mehrangarh fort was shown and all but maybe they intended it to be somewhere not very far off from Gotham. Jodhpur was the location for that scene but was the prison meant to be in India itself?
    What do you say?

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  107. Nah, the scene was shot in India. But location is unknown (though some people say it is supposed to be Mexico).

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  108. Have a few questions too:
    A. When Bruce Wayne returns and promises Selina the clean slate, and in fact hands it over to her, where the fuck does he get it form? he comes staright out of prison, his entire stuff is with Bane now, and she just takes it without testing or anything?

    B. How does Blake know Bruce is Batman? Just because he visited the orphanage once he recognized him? that way so many people must have seen bruce here and there.

    C. If Banes weakness was his mask, why didnt Batman attack him there in teh first fight?

    To ans your questions:
    1. seems to be a dream, thats the mots plausible explanation
    2. Hence batman didnt survive the bomb
    3. he killed himslef probably because there was nothing left for him, no money, no love, he was tired, and as mentioned in TDK, he was waiting for someone to take the matle, that being Robin. Also I doubt he had any feelings for Selina, so elopeing with her would be too stupid
    4. Wll we dont know the location whetther it is Jodhpur or not, but wherever it is, it is stupid to come from there. Also equally stupid is someone with popped vertebrae to attain super strenghth in 5 months
    5. Nota fitting end i guess, but then Topping TDK is very very hard, so...

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  109. Clearly this wasnt a dream and here's why

    1) the whole elaborate map for Blake
    2) the fact that Selina Kyle had the pearl necklace on
    3) there's no way Alfred would have imagined Selina in his dream. If it was a dream, he could have atleast dreamt about Rachel.
    4) the autopilot was fixed
    5) if there was no inception, people wouldn't have been discussing this ;-)
    6) and if we are discussing inception, then let us talk about prestige too. This was Bruce Wayne's prestige :-)
    7) clearly this was just a way to keep the hype on whether there would ever be a sequel again.

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  110. I meant stop behaving like a "Critic" once in a while.. its okay to be just a fan at times :)

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  111. A. True.. But you cant expect her to say ill test it and get back to you right? His entire stuff is still with him. Bane takes over only the things at the warehouse. Also in the muvie, Bruce tells her that he had kept it with him so there is no misuse. Knowing that this guy is batman, who knew all details about her, she may have believed that it could be true..
    B. It can be tricky. But that doest affect the story if he had said anything otherwise. Wayne didnt put on a mask because blake belived in him or anything, it was because of bane that he did. And since gordon and blake were close, it could be that he confirms it in the final scenes. But another question that can pop is how did blake find the underground place?
    C. He didnt know about it. He knew the reason only after he was in prison. And in the first fight wayne had the impression that he was stronger than this guy as he had beaten RA-gul himself.

    As for Mihirs post, i too would have liked the micheal cane suprise look to be the final scene, without showing waynes face at all.. Agree with gauravs responses to the questions..
    But other than the Jodhpur and the climax scene, which are prima facie, i think most of the guys here are trying too hard to find flaws in the film.
    Rohan

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  112. The scene in which Alfred sees Bruce as well as Selina, it can't be a dream. Imagining Bruce is ok, but Selina as well? Seems too much. But I would prefer if Batman died and it was Alfred imagining things after all. Way better ending!

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  113. Plotholes and problems besides the ones listed above:

    1. Everybody knew the exact second the bomb would explode when none of them saw the countdown timer. i feel like their estimates would be a little off especially Bruce. Bruce was stuck in prison when Bane removed the bomb yet he still knew the exact second the bomb would detonate.

    2. Catwoman's motives definitely needed to be fleshed out a bit more. Catwoman screwed bruce twice. First with the fingerprints and then by leading him into the trap yet we never learn why she in so much trouble. She keeps repeating that she did something wrong and is being pursued by Bane but what did she do. Plus the only times she is ever in danger is when she brings the fingerprints to the bar, at the airport, and when she breaks in to dagger's house. The first time is an attempt to save herself which actually does the opposite. The second time it is the police who catch her. The third she is once again supposedly trying to free herself again but all she does is put herself in more danger once again

    3. What was Bane and Talia doing for 5 months. I get the idea of trying to give Gotham hope and then crushing but I didn't understand their plan. They just kinda chilled for 5 months and did nothing besides letting scarecrow put all of those people on trial. There should have been more to their scheme. They were obviously not planning on leaving the city so they could have easily blown up the city at the first sign of trouble

    4. Who would have actually believed Bane's reading of Commssioner Gordon's letter. It was just a couple random pieces of paper. If I was listening to Bane I would have definitely thought he was just making it up. Plus why where there 5 pieces of paper. There must have been only like 2 sentences on each paper

    5. The whole fly the bomb over the ocean thing was stupid. First of all it was dumb and unoriginal but secondly it ruined the preceding 45 minutes. Flying the bomb out into the ocean and releasing it was a much better plan so it begs the question why that wasn't the original plan. Instead of fighting bane, if bruce went with gordon straight to the bomb with the jammer, then they could have easily had enough time to fly out over the ocean, drop it, then fly back. Autopilot not needed

    6. Worst government ever. They had 5 months to help the city and all they did was send in like 3 undercover navy seals.

    7. Bruce should have died. Don't even suggest alfred was seeing a dream, he wasn't

    8. Joseph Gordon-Levitt must be the smartest kid in the world if could tell bruce was batman simply by looking at the smile on his face

    9. The twist was obvious and Nolan put way too much emphasis on it. The only people who could be genuinely surprised were those who don't know anything about the villains. I mean obviously Bane wasn't Ghul's son and everybody was just waiting for Talia to reveal herself. i didn't mind it, but I along with many others saw it coming a mile away.

    10. the stock market heist was just funny. It went from midday to midnight in a matter of minutes

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  114. Another thing- if the ages of Bane and Talia were indeed as shown in the flashback (an adult and a child) then Bane was a paedophile, no? It was definitely not brotherly or fatherly love as shown later on in the movie. The paedo was boning the kid Talia!

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  115. Dude he is batman the guy who is best at disappearing now Nolan has focused on his appearing which makes more of the amusement which makes us think If he had to show how he travelled from here and there and how he got out of the bat then we should be not seeing a superhero movie

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  116. Don't know whether the scene was a dream or a reality, but I have a strong hunch why it was there in the first place...because you wouldn't clap yet. Because making something disappear isn't enough; you have to bring it back. That's why every magic trick has a third act, the hardest part, the part we call "The Prestige"

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  117. Havent checked all the comments, might be repetition.
    3) Why does the Batman need to stage his own death??
    Bored I guess. (Like that hero in animated Megamind movie).

    4) How the fuck does Batman travel from Jodhpur to Gotham?
    Bomb was to explode in 5-6 months. Batman taken in Pit before that and comes just a day before the supposed blast. So decent time gap for jugaad. (Met Daler Mehendi)

    1) Was the scene at the restaurant a dream or reality?
    5) Is The Dark Knight Rises a worthy ending to the trilogy?
    I thought Alfred would just smile and that's it, cut. Like Inception. Left to our imagination.

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  118. First of all, awesome movie. Now, on to your plot holes.
    1) I think its real. In fact there is nothing to suggest it is NOT real. It does seem like a fairytale ending, but how hard is it for Batman to track down someone? Much less Alfred. I think it was a good scene that gave closure to Alfred's character as well, that he finally saw the last of the Waynes being happy. Also, I think its hinted at when all those times Selina says "There are no fresh starts", this was a way to show that there are.

    2) Good point. I think Nolan wouldve been better served if he hadnt called it a nuclear bomb. The lame blast at the end wouldve been easier to explain.

    3) I dont think this is a plothole really. Bruce had had enough of both lives. Remember, he wasnt just being the Batman, he was also 'pretending' to be the billionaire playboy Bruce Wayne. So in a way neither of those personalities were truly his. In the end, Bruce didnt need to be the Batman anymore, and so there was no need to pretend to be Bruce Wayne either. I know it sounds a little confusing. And he had lost all his money, so there was nothing he could do to help the poor there either. And most importantly, he did what Alfred asked and just decided to MOVE ON.

    4) This one is okay in my opinion. I think the prison or whatever is Nolan's version of the Lazarus Pit, where Bruce 'heals' after being broken. But anyway, travelling shouldnt be an issue. And if Navy Seals can get into the city, then a revitalized Batman sure can.

    5) I think if the movie had ended with the Alfred looking on in shock scene, it would have been freakin Epic. But its hard to digest for most. Was it a worthy conclusion? Absolutely.

    Now some of the things I'd like to point out:

    The main issue I had was how much Bruce healed in the prison/pit. Not just the broken back, but his scarred kidneys, knees and all that were mentioned earlier. And he went to fighting fit in 5 months? That is a major plot hole.

    Some people asked why did Batman take the effort to make the flaming Batsign on his return to Gotham. The answer would be to inspire the people and galvanize them for retaliation. How else could he let everyone know he was back?

    Also on Talia and Bane not destroying the city right away, I know its silly, but the explanation Bane gives to Bruce when he brings him to prison is all about that. They were giving the people some hope, to break them utterly before destroying them. Makes little sense but Nolan gets points for atleast trying to explain that one.

    As someone said, how did they get bikes in the stock market?

    Also, Bane's death. Kinda silly and ruined a lot of things. I mean it makes everyone else look stupid. If all it took was a gun then why didnt someone just fire at Bane (or even the Joker for that matter) all the time they were in the open?

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  119. None of these are plot holes. I will put an end to all of these really quickly and easily.
    1. It was real, why wouldn't it be. Like all of a sudden its hard for BATMAN to find people.
    2. Easy, don't be around the bomb. He used the autopilot on his ship. Theres that whole scene where Fox finds out that he fixed it a long time ago and never told him about it.
    3. He faked his death to protect his family and friends and to start a fresh life with Selena. The playboy identity of Bruce Wayne was never his true self, just a mask and so was the Batman. Neither are what Bruce really wants to be.
    4. BECAUSE HE'S BATMAN!
    5. HELL YES ITS A WORTHY ENDING!

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  120. In Angels and Demons, Robert Langdon survives a nuclear explosion in the last few seconds before the explosion by jumping from a nuclear device carrying helicopter hovering at a few thousand feet WITHOUT a parachute into the river.btw he used a window cover as a parachute but that's silly... the point is if Robert Langdon can do it, why not Bruce Wayne? He is fucking Batman!

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  121. In Angels and Demons, Robert Langdon survives a nuclear explosion in the last few seconds before the explosion by jumping from a nuclear device carrying helicopter hovering at a few thousand feet WITHOUT a parachute into the river.btw he used a window cover as a parachute but that's silly... the point is if Robert Langdon can do it, why not Bruce Wayne? He is fucking Batman!

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  122. Dude, really ? I usually love your write ups. ..but. ..
    1. Reality. Name and address? Are you serious? He is BATMAN.
    2. Jumps off, as it’a on autopilot. I also thought about 6 miles.
    3. Good point. He keeps low profile after every mission. Chasing criminals its more fun than avoiding crime. Because he is BATMAN.
    4. You finally got it. He is BATMAN. LOL.
    5. It is but let's hope there is continuation and Robin.

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  123. you missed the police trapped in tunnel scene, they were trapped for 3 months, they must living miserably eating and shitting at the same place, yet when they come they are wearing shiney new dress new boots caps like nothing happened.

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  124. The two theories are that either batman escaped before the bomb exploded, to finally have the life that Alfred always want him to have and that he truly died. My opinion is that the last restaurant scene is a fantasy of Alfred's, but that doesn't change anything, Bruce Wayne could very well still be alive, it's just a fantasy.

    Also, I can understand your confusion on how Batman made it back to Gotham, but if you listen to how long they have left according to Jim Gordon, you can see large periods of time have elapsed, going from like 3 months, to 24 days to a week...more than enough time for him to make it back and set up the elaborate plan to pass on the torch and (possibly) fake his own death.

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  125. I think it was somewhere in the middle east. Remember seeing arabic subs on the tv inside the prison.

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  126. To add, I found the the whole climax of the movie with a cutting scent of Prestige nostalgia. Quoting partly from the movie itself...Every great magic trick consists of three parts or acts. The first part is called "The Pledge". The magician shows you something ordinary: a deck of cards, a bird or a man. Here the Bomb, the Bat and the Batman. Perhaps he asks you to inspect it to see if it is indeed real, unaltered, normal. But of course... it probably isn't (the auto-pilot upgrade).The second act is called "The Turn". The magician takes the ordinary something and makes it do something extraordinary. The explosion. Now you're looking for the secret... but you won't find it, because of course you're not really looking. They just assume him to be dead. You don't really want to know. You want to be fooled. They want to beleive he somehow escaped. But you wouldn't clap yet. Because making something disappear isn't enough; you have to bring it back. That's why every magic trick has a third act, the hardest part, the part called "The Prestige". The meet at the cafe in Florence. Only difference, Michael Caine doesnt get to narrate those lines. He gets to experience it.

    And with the Inception theory, that's really intriguing. Adding to your theory, Marion Cotillard seems to be doing the very same thing in both the movies. In Incpetion, she tried to foil the plan, the basis of a dream. In The Dark Knight Rises; if it was all a dream setup to inbibe confidence in Wayne by making him win. Mal seems to be reprising the same role she left. Foiling the dream.

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  127. He probably never flew it through the narrow lane, he probably flew directly above where he was going to park it and then dropped down such as a helicopter could.

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  128. Sorry, but it was Christopher Nolan that made the rules. The idea that what happened in the Batman movies, while not likely, were actually possible. No super powers, no magic, no mutants. So when there are obvious plot holes, (which they continue to be despite various theories, at least until they are filled by a novelization or creator comments), people wonder how such plot inconsistencies are possible.

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  129. To add to the 'Prestige' discussion -- http://www.cracked.com/blog/advanced-batman-theory-why-nolan-will-kill-bruce-wayne/ ..

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  130. I want a T shirt printed with this text.

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  131. How do they explain Bruce Wayne's death at the end of the movie?

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  132. Excellent points there. Regarding why no one shoots Bane, I think it's because he skulks off to the back when the police attack, and later engages with Batman and is thrown into the room.

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  133. I don't think Bane and Talia were romantically boning, I thought it was brotherly love. If Bane was a pedophile Talia's father would never have arrived in the pit to rescue him.

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  134. Good observations, Sam. I never realised that the stock market heist changes from broad daylight to midnight in a couple of minutes.

    As for "What were Bane and Talia doing for 5 months. I get the idea of trying to give Gotham hope and then crushing but I didn't understand their plan" -- that was it, they were giving Gotham the slowest, most painful death.

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  135. What language was the other guy speaking in the prison pit? Who had to be translated by the one looking after Bruce? Maybe it can give an idea of the exact location. Not necessary but it certainly is possible.

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  136. Superb how both The Prestige and Inception can be woven in with this trilogy. Surely Nolan must have intended it to be so?

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  137. He was among the rich people killed by the mobs in the 'courts' held during the siege.

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  138. I was wondering, did Bruce truly hang up his boots for good or just take a sabbatical? Because Blake would make a rather poor Batman. He has had none of the training Bruce did in the League of Shadows, and thats not something you can pick up anywhere is it. The gizmos and gadgets are only secondary. Has Nolan intentionally left us with such an open ending and tantalizing prospect of a sequel? Although Warner Bros have green lit a reboot for the Batman franchise I hear..

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  139. the tv in his cell shows 77 days of gotham siege when he is going for his secon attempt at climbing the stairs.maybe before going out he sees the tv again and sees how many days have passed.Again his travel from cell to gotham must be shown accordingly ,i mean when he gets out maybe 30 days left and when he reaches you get your climax.i do think it is the best ending posssible, its just good it is happy ending after all and neways watever he did he would be criticised because its not possible to please all.ITs not INCEPTION coz MAL is DEAD and can be seen when COBB's conscience sees her.
    Now my question:
    Q1)for me this movie was like GOW with ras al gul's child taking revenge in the "keh ke lunga " sense.WAt do u guys think?
    p.s i know this is silly but did ne1 think when bruce is climbing the wall, it was like a incy wincy spider climbing on the wall moment ...

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  140. I had a problem involving the same thing, There was a camouflage bat (the same one lucius is checking at the end) in the room bane steals all the tumblers from. Why use the tumblers but not the bat? Wouldn't air support have been nice for protecting the bomb?

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  141. We have to see, if in fact it was a dream, who can Alfred imagine there? Rachel dead, Miranda is evil and dead, that leaves Selina. Alfred did hint about Selina to Bruce initially, he picked him u when Selina posed as his wife and took his car, so that angle is always open for Alfred. yes a lil farfetched maybe, but then many things in this movie are a bit farfetched, by Nolan's standards.

    I also agree that Batman/Bruce dying is a better ending, and I give the benefit of doubt to Nolan.

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  142. A. Yes a valid point, but It still feels very unlikely that in a city where Bane rules, Bruce entered un-traced, secured his clean slate, found Selina roaming on the streets and....

    B. Blakes character is probably the most under-developed, maybe, just maybe, if there is a continuation to this where Robin becomes the protagonist, some more questions maybe answered.

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  143. I think I'm late her but let me explain
    1. the question is very intriguing but in the end without a doubt it is real. You ask me why? well since the movie is a lot inspired by the graphic novel "The Dark Knight Returns" that should answer most of your questions. Just here Bruce finally gains some peace at last, which in all other media and books he might never will.
    2. If you remember, he fixed the auto pilot glitch. Towards the end when he lowers his the bat then further to gain altitude just before he blasts the buildings with his cannon he must have ejected safely on the roof , it was cleverly shot.
    3. Touch question to answer, many possibilities, as said above one good reason read the comic and perhaps gotham doesn't need batman anymore as they began to fight for not just themselves but the idea of good. The novel should give more insight plus don't want to spoil it since it has bit different but really shows.
    4. The jail is somewhere in mexico desert. Moreover he takes about a month if you observe carefully and he has "friends" everywhere.
    5. YES. If this isn't one of the best movies in history than there is none

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  144. How can anyone, from world's best detective mind, expect not to know where his Butler went on a vacation. I can find that out ;p

    If there is a loophole then it is about Batman's healing. Explained in detail here: http://www.worldcinemareviews.co.cc/2012/07/the-dark-knight-rises-2012.html
    Thoughts most welcome!

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  145. I'd just like to add that I had a Sherlock moment (BBC Series). And I agree, it was a lame-ass explosion. But, I'm intrigued by the idea of future sequels with Robin. I mean, the dream theory can get stuffed if it means that we get more Batman. I mean, honestly. He's a frickin superhero.

    Hats off to the guy who mentioned the Prestige.

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  146. My problem with all these superhero movies is that they have a standard template. There is an unstable object which will explode/ open a portal/ insert any other form of doom on a countdown. The other kind of movies use socialism/ townplanning as elements to raise chaos. Here you have both but at a very sketchy level. You know right from the start that the hero is going to go all out to save the city. TDKR in my opinion was extremely lengthy, the damn bomb took half an hour to go off when it said 11 minutes, thus giving time for annoying dialoguebaazi ( eg. Talia Al Ghul's death scene). Just dunk the bomb already. Also why was Miranda Tate/ Talia waiting for so many years for the nuclear bomb to be made? Surely she could have got it done from somebody else. I am not a film critic neither but I had too many hopes from TDKR.

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  147. What about the resulting wave from the nuclear blast? Would this not have flooded gotham as it is a low lying city in the immediate vicinity of the blast.

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  148. I loved every bit of the film! Sadly I was one of the few who clapped though...

    I just have one question which I thought was a booboo. Correct me if I'm missing something.

    - Batman is brought to the Lazarus Pit. He gets told of the child who escaped. He also gets told of the plague and how bane had the good doc "fix" him. Shouldn't it have struck batman then that Bane couldn't logically be Ras al Gul's child? I mean why would the child come back to the Pit to sit through the plague?

    Just thinking out loud.

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  149. Just watched the movie again..

    1) When Alfred imagines Bruce in the beginning of the movie he doesn't actually picture Bruce Wayne, he pictures a woman and another man, not actually Bruce Wayne. In the final scene you actually see Anne Hathaway (whom he had never seen) and Bruce Wayne with her.
    2)Batman had fixed the autopilot months ago he just didn't say it because he planned on faking his death. They showed Batman and then they showed 5 seconds left, they didn't show it happen at the same time, he could've ejected a longgg time ago, the movie doesn't have to show it to keep you thinking. Also, remember something is missing from the will that Bruce Wayne leaves and remember that "Robin" is given coordinates to the Bat cave. Did anybody else notice that somebody fixed the Batman light or "sign thing in the sky" that was previously broken, Gordon was like damnnnnn he's back.
    3) Probably because he just wants to move on like how Cat Woman was planning on moving on, he wants to live a new life.
    4)Good question.
    5) Yes it is.

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  150. Alfred mentioned that he routinely took holidays in Italy. Wayne, as his employer, could have had access to Alfred's receipts. Ergo, Wayne could most likely figure out which cafes Alfred had frequented during these trips. Right?

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  151. "In the final scene you actually see Anne Hathaway (whom he had never seen) and Bruce Wayne with her." i think that's a good point and supports the idea that the scene is real.

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  152. Poor guy's back was broken and his common sense was clouded by the crushing pain.

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  153. No nuclear blast because it was a fusion device which does not give off radioactive waves on that scale

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  154. 3 is easy. Now that the Harvey Dent lie is exposed, Gotham can finally have the hero it needs AND deserves. Batman becomes the white knight and the symbol he wanted. With that accomplished Bruce can go on to live his own life

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  155. Why does the word "critic" need quotation marks (or a capital letter) in the above?
    How did Gordon work out Bruce was the Batman on foot of a single mention of a coat? What, he never draped his coat around another child in a few decades of service?

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  156. OK the Batman has to get the bomb at least six miles away from the city, right? The clock has less than two minutes on it (1:57, I think) and Batman has yet to cross the immediate city space. So, of course, first thing he does is give Selina an oul' snog, then some buddy chat with Gordon. Let's be generous and imagine the clock still has two minutes on it. He has to get at least six miles in two minutes: that is, get up to a speed of 180mph AND cross the city with all those bomb-clanking hijinks AND get out of the Bat.

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  157. He only needs to get 3 miles away, not six. The radius of a 6 mile circle is 3 miles.

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  158. Bane went out like a b**ch in my opinion, such a poor ending to his story. In addition to this, I felt that he lacked Joker's edge when it came to needlessly killing people. If people were to fear Bane, he should have shot up the stock exhange, and hung Dagger out like the Navy Seals.

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  159. Those Gotham traders keep shit like that locked up in case another Enron happens.

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  160. Also, when Robin's partner dies, he (Robin) doesn't even blink... He's too busy on Batman's nuts in the following scene to realise that his best mate had just been shot in the back by D-Bo and his mates.

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  161. I don't know about Alfred being happy to see Bruce... Alfred appeared to almost neck himself when appealing to Bruce's parents at the end.. His whole "I failed you" scene almost brought a tear to my eye, and I'm a Bane sympathiser LOL... However, I'm with the majority of viewers here who believes that the scene was real. It was too beautiful to be a dream and Nolan has alreay used that one.

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  162. My biggest problem with TDKR was that Bane was billed to be this brutal villian despite the fact he kills like 10 people in the film. Bane was wack, Talia was also a poor choice. Bane should have been snapping necks in the Stock Exchange until Batman came out, and then used the Batman as a way of diverting police attention away from him.

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  163. The Dark Knight Rises was a very satisfying experience, but I kinda feel it would've been better if the film makers kept the plot simpler: characters like Miranda Tate weren't needed, and the love scene with Wayne wasn't necessary either. A lot of stuff could have been sheared off, to focus on the main part, i.e., Bane vs. Batman.

    Bane is a formidable enemy, and in TDKR, he was a lethal combination of brawn, brain and psychosis. Even the Dark Knight was intimidated, (at least, that's what I took from his battle cry when confronting Bane, after a coupla blows to the head). In short, a TRUE adversary, Bane is. To see him go down like a commoner, and worse, to see him a mere pawn to Tate's game, dimmed the menacing aspect of Bane. The Tate twist felt contrived, slapped on at the last minute, and simply out of place in Nolan's Batman Universe.

    I was wondering: wouldn't it have been cooler if Bruce Wayne died? And I mean, died half-way through the movie... in the Lazarus Pit.

    Escaping the pit was heroic, yes. But what if Bruce didn't make it? What would happen to Gotham, on the brink of complete annihilation, praying for a miracle, praying for a symbol of hope? With Bruce dead, someone has to RISE...

    John Blake.

    My idea: Bruce dies. Blake realizes that Batman will never come back. But then, Batman is not a man, he's a symbol... Blake finds the batcave, dons the suit, and RISES to the occasion. He kicks ass, saves Gotham, and everybody believes in Batman again.

    This of course may not go down well with the fans, but it would've been cool to see the justification of "being more than a man, being an ideal".

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  164. They said it was a six mile blast radius, not a six mile blast diameter...

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  165. He had seen Anne Hathaway, in Wayne manor, at the beginning of the movie.

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  166. I think bruce is alive, don't ask me how he survived, Only Alfred and Bruce know that the Necklace Selina stole is trackable and just before the Cafe scene police say that the necklace is missing. Alfred could have just tracked it to the Cafe.

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  167. Batman/Bruce Wayne had to stage his own death because as long as he is around he would be expected to protect Gotham from all the loonies & psychos. He has of course washed his hands off and placed the care of Gotham on the capable shoulders of Commissioner Gordon. He uses the 'slate cleaner' to wipe clean, because as long as there is Bruce Wayne there will be Batman.

    Apart from the bloopers mentioned by you (agree to all), the biggest mistake made by Nolan is casting the horse -teethed texan skank Anne Hathaway.

    But kudos to Nolan for having brought so many characters from the comic book world in one movie and then giving them due importance in the script - He is the true Batman

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  168. 1. Alfred mentions a cafe in Florence. Now, it shouldn't be difficult for Bruce to find out who drinks the Fernet Branca, and just that alone. Also, as people have repeatedly pointed out, Alfred has not seen Selina, indeed he has. Bruce was scanning her profile and Alfred mentions 'why don't the two of you exchange notes over coffee?" Moving on, in the penultimate scene, when officials are running a ledger on Bruce Wayne's property, the missing necklace is mentioned. Now, someone is worried about the missing pearl necklace, although Bruce had already taken it from Kyle at the charity ball earlier, it's back on Kyle's neck at the cafe.

    2. If Bruce is not alive, it's difficult to explain how Blake gets hold of the co-ordinates, and how Gordon sees the newly established Bat logo on the MCU roof. And, also someone software patch being fixed in Fox's lab?

    3. mrdon makes a beautiful point about it. (see comment thread)

    4. This point had indeed troubled me a lot too. But, let's not overlook he has the training from the league of shadows, and plus, he knows the city's ins and outs more than any official, or even Bane. He, despite being bankrupt, is understood to be quite 'resourceful'. His Batwing is safely kept on the roof, his underground lab, and his entire technology is safe, so indeed, he is smarter than Bane.

    5. It may not be the cleverest of the movies Nolan has directed in his career, i agree, But, you cannot run away from the fact, that closure cannot be fully achieved without tying the loose ends. Alfred mentions in the beginning, that he fears Bruce wants to fail. The closure has to be how Bruce remembers his father. "Why do we fall?" Only to rise again. So, he must rid himself of his defeatist notions. And, he cannot go on living in a shadow, hence the sun-lit cafe in Florence is quite the closure or rather, a new beginning, and is achieved after he has responsibly restored the balance in Gotham city, giving it a deserving white knight. Not the kind of balance, which Talia and her ilk talk about.

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  169. "characters like Miranda Tate weren't needed, and the love scene with Wayne wasn't necessary either"

    Love scene was important. Nolan has paved the way for Damian (Talia and Wayne's son) to enter the fray (if someone chooses to make another movie on the Bat).

    "To see him go down like a commoner, and worse, to see him a mere pawn to Tate's game, dimmed the menacing aspect of Bane. The Tate twist felt contrived, slapped on at the last minute, and simply out of place in Nolan's Batman Universe."

    If you read Batman comics, you would know that Bane was in love with Talia (this is after Ra's al Ghul takes him as his heir) and was always ready to do whatever she asked of him. The order of events have been changed a little in the movie though.

    Nolan has kept it open ended at the end. If somebody chooses to take the franchise forward, John Blake can be shown as the Nightwing. Nightwing can then choose to become Batman once Damian is around 8 years old (like in comics). Damian will be Robin...Just a theory.

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  170. I dont think Talia died. I believe she just fainted

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  171. Regarding Point 4
    "How the fuck does Batman travel from Jodhpur to Gotham?"
    I think its possible that Alfred helps Bruce to travel from Jodhpur to Gotham. Alfred is never shown he is in Gotham city during Bane's control & lockdown of the city. In "Batman Begins" Alfred comes to pick Bruce after the incident on the mountains. May be in the same manner Alfred finds Bruce & helps him sneak in Gotham.

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  172. 4) Bruce Wayne was not dumped in the Lazarus Pit. It was just an underground prison.

    Lazarus Pits are restorative/healing pits. You can read this - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lazarus_Pit

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  173. That's a bleh explanation considering he freshened up for Seline Kyle and had plenty of thinking time while he snuck back into Gotham :D

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  174. Sadly, I don't have these questions after watching the film, neither do I agree with them. But the first thing that told me that this ain't goignt to be no 'TDK' is the fact that the guys wearing the masks are the ones which sound the loudest and clearest in the sound design! (Bane's intro.) Thank you.

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  175. The ending is a masterstroke.Take it as you please.
    1. If you havent read the comics and have only seen nolans trilogy then you will be happy that bruce has moved on with his life and passed on the role of protecting the city to blake.
    2. If you are a comic book fan then you can take the ending in two ways
    A. If like most die hard batman fans you know that bruce can never move on then take the last scene to be alfreds imagination(highly unlikely cos 1.Gordon gets a new bat signal 2.Selina keeps the pearls 3.Auto-pilot has been fixed)
    B. Be an optimist like me(Personally this one satisfying and makes sense)
    Bruce is at peace this time unlike at the begining of the movie and should the need arise the dark knight will be back to protect his beloved gotham with much needed help from Robin(Seriously you guys actually think after blake is revealed as robin he would become batman).

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  176. As for the first question, I don't think it was a dream. Remember when Fox learns of the autopilot on the 'Bat' being fixed? Tada. Closure.

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  177. To me the major plot-hole besides the one where he travels from Jodhpur to Gotham is - Why on earth was every cop in the city marching underground? I mean, I get it Bane had to be captured but hey, 3000 cops from one city at one point in one tunnel? And they come out perfectly ok after 3 months, to Fight!

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  178. http://www.youtube.com/theadamlongstaff

    the ultimate batman scoop

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  179. 1. Alfred and Wayne could both have gone to the vacation and could have occupied different tables. After all, that's what Alfred wanted. To see Wayne have a normal life

    There is an explicit mention that auto-pilot is indeed fixed when fox finds it out. Assuming that scene means something and is not pointless; Wayne is alive. Alfred is not imagining anything

    2. It sure seemed like he was in the cockpit seconds before it blasted. That was poor picturization. Besides that, it is pretty clear that he would have engaged auto pilot. Because, it makes absolutely no sense to show that the auto pilot has been fixed

    The 6-mile radius explains it all. Based on a different scene, since 'The Bat' could escape missiles or rocket launcher or whatever, it can travel at a speed of several hundred miles/hour. Divide by 60. That is more than hundred miles in a minute. Any radiation is negligible :)

    3. Batman stages his own death for two reasons. a) He is tired of operating as a superhero and for not getting to lead a normal life. Once Alfred makes it clear that Rachel truly loved Dent and not Wayne, the bubble clearly burst and he would have wanted to move on with no regret

    4. Seriously, How does he travel from Jodhpur to Gotham? One can come up with hundred explanations. But, there is no excuse for the creator to leave a loose end like that. That explains that it is not a perfect movie

    5. I could not agree more. 'The Dark Knight Rises would’ve been an utter classic had Nolan not shown Bruce Wayne alive'. It would have been perfectly fine for the auto pilot to not have worked

    BTW, Nice title for the post

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  180. Keeping things open-ended is a great way to finish a movie, leaving the audience wanting more. It's a high note that shouldn't really be sullied with a sequel just for the sake of it. I complete disagree with ANYBODY who feels there must be a follow-up on this epic trilogy.

    If there has to be another batman movie, it'll have to be a reboot. Still, I would've loved to have seen Blake don the batsuit in TDKR.

    About Talia: hmm, I must dig deeper into batman lore, I guess. Sadly, my knowledge of superheroes is limited to the movies I see and the nerd rage I read on the internet. Thanks for the tip, Akshayappu!

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  181. Found on an IMDb Discussion Board.
    http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1345836/board/nest/202126710?p=1

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  182. Was Lucius Fox at Bruce's funeral? I don't remember seeing him there. If not, I wonder why. Was the seen of Fox finding out about the autopilot fix before or after the funeral scene?

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  183. That would be very diffcult..Blake was just a police officer..he had not undergone the training Bruce had and did not singlehandadly defeated the league of shadows...The cape and the rest of the items just helped him in his quest, he would not have survived if he was just another guy...more than the tate twist, i felt that nolan could have made bane menacing even after that, instead of sidestepping the character after jay point on the movie

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  184. They mention that a six mile area would be totall destroyed..It is hard to imagine that Gotham escaped a massive nuclear explosion without a strach on the back..as for radiation, Fox mentions that they use nuclear fission, nut fusion..all th talk of a safe energy source

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  185. He does say "It also comes in black," indicating there are probably more than one.

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  186. True. But Blake as Batman could have actually done well, using his wile and guile to sneak into the city, rally the cops and get them to outnumber, outgun and outpummel the goons.

    In fact, the elaborate sign on the building would be just the thing Blake would do: a sign of life to rattle the villains' cage.

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  187. One very important thing which makes Gordon, Catwoman and others look silly. How can Robin who has , apparently, only seen Bruce Wayne once that too as a teenage boy had it figured out that he was Batman but people like Gordon who had worked with for years not recognized that he was The Batman or Catwoman for that matter who meets her so many times throughout the movie, both as Bruce Wayne and Batman?

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  188. It was not a "nuclear bomb" in Angels and Demons, it was antimatter which annihilates instantly leaving nothing but energy. But of course antimatter is still being studied, nothing concrete.

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  189. 100 miles a minute is 6000 miles/ hr. No rotor based craft can do that, unless ofcourse, the mother of all explanations - "it is the goddamn batwing!". That obviously explains everything.

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  190. I have gone through most of the comments and I am surprised that no one's talked about the opening scene. Why was Dr. Pavel being arrested/taken to US? Why was he being interrogated by ACP Pradhyuman's second cousin? Why didn't the pilots of the CIA flight not see Bane's rescue flight on their radar and inform the troops? Also since Dr. Pavel and Bane were already acquainted why didn't he inform the CIA agent that it was Bane who was under that hood? What about the people who transported Dr. Pavel+Bane to the CIA? Were they Bane's men? Were they working for CIA and then double crossed them? Surely they would've recognised Bane before putting a hood on his face?

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  191. We know the scene was shot in Jodhpur. Not necessary that the prison mentioned in the movie was indeed in Jodhpur.

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